Bad Wax

Musings of a Card Collector

2009 Baseball Hall of Fame – My Vote

Originally posted 12/22/08

There have been a lot of posts lately on who should be elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame in 2009. Since a lot of the reviews I do encompass whether or not the player is worthy of entrance into the Hall, I though I would give my opinions on whether a player gets in or not. Here is this year’s list of players on the ballot, which by the way is the fewest number of names ever in balloting history:

2009 candidates
• Harold Baines
• Jay Bell
• Bert Blyleven
• David Cone
• Andre Dawson
• Ron Gant
• Mark Grace
• Rickey Henderson
• Tommy John
• Don Mattingly
• Mark McGwire
• Jack Morris
• Dale Murphy
• Jesse Orosco
• Dave Parker
• Dan Plesac
• Tim Raines
• Jim Rice
• Lee Smith
• Alan Trammell
• Greg Vaughn
• Mo Vaughn
• Matt Williams

Here is my take, if you took steroids or were linked to steroids in any way shape or form, no way you get in. You need at least 7 years of domination, where you were by far and away one of the 20 best players in the game. Automatics are 3000 hits, 500 home runs, 800 stolen bases, 300 wins, 300 saves, or 3000 strikeouts. Character plays a huge role, if the player’s numbers are close and he was a guy who was good for baseball he’s in, likewise for a guy bad for baseball he is out. I’ll break it down into getting in this year, next three years, before 15 years are up, veterans committee, and not a chance. Here would be my voting record.

Hall this Year (3):

  1. Rickey Henderson – 3000+ hits, 800+ stolen bases = automatic. Throw in that he leads two major statistical categories all time, and he should get nearly 100% of the vote.
  2. Jim Rice – Last chance, he was a pain to them, now the writers got their revenge. 15 years is long enough, he was a major offensive force in the game from 1975 – 1986, in my book that get’s him in.
  3. Lee Smith – 300+ saves = automatic, just because he played for 8 teams in 18 years doesn’t make him a bad pitcher, the guy was money from 1983-1995. Don’t forget that he owned the saves record when he retired.

Hall in the Next 3 Years:

  1. Bert Blyleven – In my mind his 3000+ strikeouts gets him in. Just look at his per season strikeout rate, it’s mind numbing.
  2. Harold Baines – Numbers are good, but he defined a position (DH). Anyone who defines a position gets in.
  3. Andre Dawson – Dominated from 1977 – 1992, if game was on the line with bases loaded down by 1, would you want to face him in his prime? Should have been in years ago, not sure why it’s taking so long. Plus he was a baseball good guy.
  4. Dale Murphy – Two MVPs should have gotten him in. He was the face for some god awful Braves teams in the mid 80s. Could you imagine what his stats would look like if he had protection in the lineup in his prime years?
  5. Tim Raines – 800+ stolen bases means a trip to the Hall. We are talking about a guy that flat out wreaked havoc on the base paths, good for at least 2 runs every 3 games for a solid decade.

Sometime in Next 15 years:

  1. Don Mattingly – He was so popular and on a popular team. At some point they have to let him in right? High quality personality as well.
  2. Alan Trammell – See Mattingly.

Veterans Committee

  1. David Cone – Just not dominant long enough. Sub 200 wins hurts as well. His 2600+ strikeouts are good but not good enough. He was dominating though, that’s why he is on this list. Only way he gets in is this route.
  2. Jack Morris – I like his 14 wins a year on average, but he played on some good teams and 11 of his 18 seasons he had double digit losses. He has just under 2500 strikeouts. Just not enough support to get in though.
  3. Dave Parker – Never had the decade of dominance. His numbers are real good though, and he was definitely a feared hitter. At 339 home runs though, it’s going to be an uphill battle.
  4. Tommy John – If you pitch for 26 years you have to win 300 games, sorry but that’s how it works, 288 isn’t gonna get you in on your last ballot. Only way in is on a wing a a prayer.

Nice Try But Not Going To Happen:

  1. Jay Bell – Um no, not a chance.
  2. Ron Gant – Gant was good, not very good or great, just good.
  3. Mark Grace – Wildly popular but so short on so many statistical categories. Great hitter though.
  4. Mark McGwire – Steroids, whether he did or didn’t, he’s been mentioned. Can’t let him in sorry.
  5. Jesse Orosco – Pitching until you’re almost 50 doesn’t grant you access.
  6. Dan Plesac – Not even remotely close in any categories. Good set up guy though.
  7. Mo Vaughn – Tough one because he had the decade of dominance. The problem was that he played only 2 more years after that.
  8. Greg Vaughn – A lot better than you think, 3 40+ home run seasons and 1 50 home run season. Very solid, but not good enough for the Hall.
  9. Matt Williams – If he got to 400 home runs I would said yes, but couple that with only 1878 hits and he just is never getting in.

Like I said, these are my opinions and I am sure that your’s will be different. I always find this part of the year exciting just for the Hall of Fame debate. I’m curious about your takes.

December 2, 2008 - Posted by chemgod | Baseball News | , , , , | 16 Comments

16 Comments »

  1. I just send something similar to my mother-in-law and wife. I agree with your list but for some reason I think Mattingly will be in within the next 3 years…and I think they will leave Murphy out a little longer (next 15). You are right on Trammell being 15. With McGwire- I think he will be a Vet choice in the long run.

    Comment by Jason | December 2, 2008 | Reply

  2. Excellent post and analysis. I agree with just about everything here.

    Comment by dayf | December 2, 2008 | Reply

  3. I agree that Baines defined his position! Thank you for also stating it in your argument for his entrance.

    Comment by whitesoxcards | December 2, 2008 | Reply

  4. I love this debat.

    Being elected to the Hall of Fame IS NOT A POPULARITY CONTEST and IT”S NOT ENOUGH TO HAVE BEEN A GOOD PLAYER

    That being said the only people off this list that get in are:

    Bert Blyleven- Long overdue
    Rickey Henderson- First Ballot guy if ever there was one.
    Lee Smith- Eckersly, Goose Smith has to go
    Andre Dawson- Not a member of 3000 hits or 500 hr clubs but 2,700+hits, 438 HR’s and 1,500+RBI

    Everybody else, fugghataboutit

    Raines, Baines, Murphy, Mattingly

    All very, very good players but just don’t have HOF worthy stats.

    Comment by Guido | December 2, 2008 | Reply

  5. @Guido I think you forgot about Jim Rice. I highly doubt he would fall only 2.8% short of the Hall in ‘08, and then fail in ‘09.

    Rickey and Rice are in this year. It’s not Lee Smith’s year yet, but that is coming.

    Comment by Andrew Wirtanen | December 2, 2008 | Reply

  6. Great write-up. I don’t know whether I agree or disagree on McGwire, but what I do take exception to is your reasoning. We live in a country and a society with a justice system based on innocent until proven guilty, yet we somehow do an incredibly bad job of carrying that ideaology to other arenas.

    Is McGwire guilty of using Steroids? Most Likely. Will we ever prove it? Probably not. Is he guilty? No, not at this time. It doesn’t mean he’s innocent, just not guilty (as of right now). As such, I think it is very unfair of us to judge him based on this criteria alone.

    Comment by David | December 2, 2008 | Reply

  7. To that I say we didn’t know if Rose bet on his own games but we kept him out anyway. At some point it will come out that he did it. Time heals all wounds but doesn’t get you in the Hall. Other guys I dont want in are Bonds, Sosa, Tejada, Clemens, Palmiero, ect…

    Comment by chemgod | December 3, 2008 | Reply

  8. Henderson is a lock. The rest of the field is wide open but there are only 6 players that have most of the qualities needed for enshrinement. Dawson, Raines, Baines, Blyleven, Rice, and Smith. Of those 6 the first 2 that should get in would be Dawson and Blyleven.

    Comment by bapple2286 | December 3, 2008 | Reply

  9. This year I would vote for Henderson and Blyleven for sure. Looking at Rice’s numbers, he must have made a lot of writers mad to still be on the outside. I’ll vote for him too. Dawson and Raines are also defendable choices. Smith is a tough call. I heartily supported Gossage, who was more versatile and more dominating. I can’t vote for Baines – he was never a great hitter and he played DH for 60% of his career. I’m thinking about McGwire – hate to keep him out for doing something that was not against the rules of baseball at the time. He is certainly qualified based on performance.

    Comment by Dave | December 3, 2008 | Reply

  10. what about greg maddox he’s retiring this monday and he has over 3,000 k’s 300 wins 4 cy young’s and 18 gold gloves!
    he’s got to be in there in the next 5-10 years.i think he deserves it.

    Comment by oswald9d8 | December 5, 2008 | Reply

  11. I was just working with this year’s ballot. I agree that not only Maddux goes in but also Glavine and Smoltz.

    Comment by chemgod | December 6, 2008 | Reply

  12. Henderson goes in, but in could be close for Rice & Dawson.
    Blyleven & Raines maybe. Tommy John surgery should make up the missing 12 wins for Tommy John. Not only did Tommy have 288 Wins most not in the HOF eligible, but he will forever be tied to changing baseball history with his landmark surgery. He also had a 2.65ERA in 88.1 innings with a 6-3 post season record.
    McGwire will never get in until he says he is sorry and goes on Larry King, Barbara Walters etc etc and cries and cries. What were his lawyer’s thinking ? He should have gotten a bad cold the day before the Senate hearings. Advice to Big Mac >Hey you can always blame it on Canseco: he talked me into it, blah blah blah. The writers want to see remorse and they want you to grovel.You don’t have Sammy Sosa’s smile & charm. He might be able to get away with it, but you can’t.
    300 saves shouldn’t be a bench mark. Are you going to put in J.Montgomery,R.Myers,J.Wetteland,T.Henke,R.Nen,
    J.Reardon,R.Aguilera & D.Jones in the HOF just because they have 300+SVs ? Those are just the current 5yr+ eligible ones in the 300+SV club as there are still active & retired less than 5yr guys also members. Lee Smith’s 478SVs is impressive, but in the context of the closer’s role changing,it is not as impressive as Gossage,Fingers & Sutter getting a much larger portion of their 300+SV in 2 & 3 IP saves than Smith & even more so with the current crop of closers.

    Comment by Fredrico | December 8, 2008 | Reply

  13. I disagree about the steriods issue precluding someone from the hall.
    Lets face facts here, Barry Bonds is going to the HOF.

    Steroids was a part of the game for reasons too complicated to place blame on a few persons. Sure the owners never injected their players, but certainly didn’t do anything for a long time and definitely turned a blind eye at first when they knew it was happening… it was after all, at the time, good for baseball. Just hang with me for a minute,
    Remember the 1998 homerun race between Sosa and McGwire? That did so much for baseball fans, especially after the beating it took during the strike of 94′.

    McGwire and Sosa were the heroes for so many during this time and the focus of so much adoration during that record breaking season.

    In closing, the Hall is for all the future fans of the game to recognize and pay respects to the superstars of generations before their time. McGwire was VERY much a superstar of his time.

    Comment by Brian | January 9, 2009 | Reply

  14. Tim Raines had 2600 hits and 800 stolen bases!

    He should be in!!

    Comment by bud | January 12, 2009 | Reply

  15. JOSE CANSECO WROTE THAT EIGHTY PERCENT OF BALLPLAYERS WERE ON STEROIDS WHEN HE PLAYED> Other PLAYERS HAVE SAID IT WAS MORE LIKE NINTY PERCENT. WHEN CANSECO TOLD THE TRUTH, HE WAS ROUNDLY VILLIFIED BY A PRESS CORE THAT WAS SO BAD, IT DIDN”T SEE THE MONSTER STORY RIGHT UNDERNEATH ITS NOSE. I was playing softball in the early 80’s and half the local town teams were jacked up……I worked in a jail for teenage seious fleons, and and THEY were all jacked up…. The steroid problem got worse and worse until Congress finally had to get involved……To single out McGwire for steroid use is silly, although he probably took them….as did the pitchers he faced, and the batters on the other teams he competed against……Tommy John gained 30 pounds of muscle in teh late 80’s IN ONE WINTER (at the age of 45) because the Yankees wouldn’t consider him for another season if he didn’t……half the Mets tried them……..Tom House says people were trying them in the 60’s, but they weren’t called steroids then……..what if it comes out that Kirby Puckett, Cal Ripken, Jeter, Andre Dawson, Mattingly (who also bulked up quickly in one winter), and other All-American tyoes tried them…then what? Are ya gonna kick them out? THEY WEREN”T AGAINST THE RULES BACK THEN…….if a guy dominated the opposition like McGwire did, he deserves in…steroids or no, and by the way, steroids were (and probably still are) LEGAL ever tried them?

    Comment by jojo | January 16, 2009 | Reply

  16. LEgal in the Dominican Republic and Panama….wonder if Mariano ever tried them……that was what the last line of my post was supposed to say

    Comment by jojo | January 16, 2009 | Reply


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